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Language in Sci-Fi
One of the things that bothers me the most about popular Sci-Fi (especially screen productions) is how blithely language is glossed over. From Star Trek to Stargate, most groups of people encountered seem to speak a common language. Granted, you can't effectively tell a story in grunts and hand signals (ok, ok you can, but it's difficult and tiresome), but I've always through there needs to be more of an effort to EXPLAIN how they're communicating.
Other than slipping a fish in your ear, or going the tired old telepathy route, what are some of your ideas for alien communication?
And please don't reply in Klingon.
Discussion started by rmoore080 , on 21 December 01:13 PM
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I think we can agree one must ride the fine line between making aliens well alien and ease of understanding in writing/movie/play etc.. etc.. Even with a universal translator there could be all kinds of ways to show aliens to be aliens such as the real world example of in America the middle finger is a rude gesture, however in many parts of the world its how people point. Or the famous bar shootout scene in Inglourious Basterds where despite all efforts to conceal their real identifies the allies screw up by using the wrong way to indicate 3 drinks.
Tuesday, 03 January 2012 09:59
ARNSP, that sounds like a good plot - an unfortunate incident occurs over the misrepresentation of a concept - say, retribution for a debt, or misunderstanding humor . . .
And frankly, making everyone sound the same wouldn't be that bad. I have friends in Boston with atrocious accents that I would love to filter into normal, unaccented English like we have here in Texas. Yep.
And frankly, making everyone sound the same wouldn't be that bad. I have friends in Boston with atrocious accents that I would love to filter into normal, unaccented English like we have here in Texas. Yep.
Tuesday, 03 January 2012 09:47
The thing about aliens having different verbal patterns is that it reinforces their alienness. The problem with a universal translator is that, if it makes everybody sound the same, it reduces the impact of having alien creatures in the story. At the very least, there should be words or phrases that are untranslatable as a reminder that the aliens have concepts in their thinking that are different from our own.
Tuesday, 03 January 2012 09:38
@ARNSProprietor,
Do you think dialects need to be included as a factor in a universal translator? Basically does dialect add to the verbal context?
Do you think dialects need to be included as a factor in a universal translator? Basically does dialect add to the verbal context?
Tuesday, 03 January 2012 05:11
One writer who has a lot of fun with language is Keith Laumer, especially in his Retief series of stories. All communication is in English, but each alien race has a different dialect, many of which are hilarious. (Retief also occasionally speaks a little alien.) It also helps to remember that human beings do not speak a single language (and aren't likely to for a very long time), and give human characters different words and speech patterns.
Sunday, 01 January 2012 16:13
All,
Hmm I think I am seeing why we need a common language LOL. Seriously I think the only real device would be some sort of universal translator that allowed one to hear the words as translation the non-verbal part of it.
Hmm I think I am seeing why we need a common language LOL. Seriously I think the only real device would be some sort of universal translator that allowed one to hear the words as translation the non-verbal part of it.
Wednesday, 28 December 2011 09:17
Steve - nice point. If you find a language floating in space somewhere without ANY frame of reference, what chance do you have of deciphering it? Unless you can identify a pattern somewhere, not much.
Makes me think of the plaque on the Voyager spacecraft that includes a visual image of something like the pattern of the Hydrogen atom or something like that, doesn't it? I think it also has a diagram of the Voyager spacecraft itself with a similarly-scaled image of a human being for a size reference.
Continuing another thread, one weakness of the holographic-thought technology is that it can't easily convey ideas that aren't visual. What about a race like Orion Darkwood's giant grasshoppers that primarily communicate with smells - or worse, a race of immobile, sentient mushrooms? Would a visual diagram make that much difference? Or what about the concepts of humor or insanity or evil? How would you convey that to an alien being through a visual interface?
Klingon is sounding better and better . . .
Makes me think of the plaque on the Voyager spacecraft that includes a visual image of something like the pattern of the Hydrogen atom or something like that, doesn't it? I think it also has a diagram of the Voyager spacecraft itself with a similarly-scaled image of a human being for a size reference.
Continuing another thread, one weakness of the holographic-thought technology is that it can't easily convey ideas that aren't visual. What about a race like Orion Darkwood's giant grasshoppers that primarily communicate with smells - or worse, a race of immobile, sentient mushrooms? Would a visual diagram make that much difference? Or what about the concepts of humor or insanity or evil? How would you convey that to an alien being through a visual interface?
Klingon is sounding better and better . . .
Tuesday, 27 December 2011 13:57
rmoore080, you and McCoy make a valid point. We almost never say the words in our head unless we are thinking of what to write or how to word a complex answer. Words are correctly viewed as mental tools. They are not self evident like some simple tools, but even a hammer are a screwdriver can only be understood in context. You must have seen or used the tool. That is why a completely unknown language is impossible to translate.
I like historical examples. On Ancient Crete the Minoans used a chicken scratch looking from of writing called Linear A. The ancient Greek conquerors adapted it to Greek before the invention of the Alphabet. The only way it was ever translated was after the cryptographer assumed that it was a form of Greek and was then able to find words in the symbols. The first words translated were the names of Olympian gods and the names of sacrificial victims. In prehistoric times the earliest Greeks were not civilized. They did not build cities. The later cities grew around the feudal fortresses of these chariot riding savages who occupied the area and later became the Greeks.
I like historical examples. On Ancient Crete the Minoans used a chicken scratch looking from of writing called Linear A. The ancient Greek conquerors adapted it to Greek before the invention of the Alphabet. The only way it was ever translated was after the cryptographer assumed that it was a form of Greek and was then able to find words in the symbols. The first words translated were the names of Olympian gods and the names of sacrificial victims. In prehistoric times the earliest Greeks were not civilized. They did not build cities. The later cities grew around the feudal fortresses of these chariot riding savages who occupied the area and later became the Greeks.
Tuesday, 27 December 2011 09:56
McCoy, your holographic comment is a good point. When you think to yourself, do you think the words 'I am going to tie my shoe', or do you think in a picture of yourself leaning over and tying the shoe? Or is it a more complicated 'image' of [yourself + loose shoelace + action = tied shoe]? Would the introduction of holographic-thought technology diminish the reliance on written/spoken language?
Tuesday, 27 December 2011 09:16
@rmoore080,
I seem to remember Neal Stephenson's Diamond Age using a similar concept. However the problem is time for one being to learn the other's language.
I seem to remember Neal Stephenson's Diamond Age using a similar concept. However the problem is time for one being to learn the other's language.
Tuesday, 27 December 2011 06:39